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Poster:
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 Diana Hamilton |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 3:03am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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About forum posting |
Hi folks, I have just removed an entire thread or so that was deliberately created (successfully, I'm afraid) to start a heated exchange.
The only thing of substance that was posted was advice to ignore things like that. Yes, I know it's hard, but if you do ignore, the aftermath is much easier to deal with. Thanks for your forbearance.
The original foulmouthed post did bring up one issue worth mentioning in a non-heated way: The many band-specific posts we have now, currently of Grateful Dead-related posts. While I realize that fans of individual bands are enthusiastic about their particular favorites, patrons should realize that this is an archive of
thousands of bands, not just one or two. It's not a forum for fans of just a few bands, even if the fans are many. For the health of the forum, my advice is:
-If your topic does not directly bear on your band
with respect to this archive, consider posting to a forum elsewhere on the net, specific to your band. More like-minded fans there will be happy to have you participate in focused discussion. It doesn't matter whether many fans are also here in this forum. The point is to be aware of the
many other patrons who are here to participate in the archive but are not fans of your band.
-If you do post something about a band that's relevant to this archive,
please place the band name in the subject line. This helps both people who are fans of your band, and those who are not.
-A related issue: If you are looking for a specific show that is not yet hosted here,
please don't ask here. Please ask in an appropriate trading forum elsewhere, or seek out other places where the show may already be available (examples: db.etree.org, bt.etree.org, your favorite band-specific forum). Too many "ISO" aka "grovel" aka "looking for" posts have traditionally caused annoyance among the patrons here and have sometimes been moderated because of that.
(Update 11/2005: Current consensus is that moderators may delete various ISOs to the etree forum here. Also, here is a
relevant FAQ.)
No matter where you post an ISO online, it's good etiquette to wait at least 3 weeks before even asking about a show or whether someone taped it. This gives tapers a chance to come home, perhaps from a tour, and prepare their tapes without feeling pressure. If a tape appears in circulation before a few weeks, that's just a bonus! We're often blessed by tapers' quick turnaround but we should *not* expect it nor ask for it.
-As always, keep your words and conduct at the same politeness level librarians would expect from you in any public library. This is indeed a library, not a parking lot.
We really would prefer to keep moderation to a minimum, but may do so as appropriate. Thanks for your help!
-Diana Hamilton, a LMA volunteer curator
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-07-28 10:57:52
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-16 11:03:38
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Poster:
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livingondead |
Date:
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Nov 22, 2005 12:21am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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possible solution |
I know on bt.etree.org there is an option to "ignore" all dead or phish postings. That sort of option would seem even more appropriate for the LMA discussion forum. Non-deadheads could simply filter out all dead-related posts that they would not be interested in. Even deadheads would benafit, as they could use the filtre to explore new music when they feel inclined to do so. Either way, that one filter would solve the problem of overcrowding the forum with dead-specific content.
I haven't heard anyone suggest this here yet, but I'm sure many of ya'll are bt users. So what do you think?
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Poster:
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dwill1188 |
Date:
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Nov 22, 2005 12:42am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: possible solution |
In response to all previous arguments concerning the Dead and posting, i still have the same opinion that you cant just move everything about the grateful dead into a seperate forum. what would the forum be like without deadheads asking and sharing their opinions? if you take away the deadheads, the discussions in the forum would no longer be interesting, if they even continue to exist. basically what im saying - I respect those who want something else besides "best of ____" but what is the archive forum without opinions? as this discussion continues, i will be in defense of the deadheads.
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Poster:
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greenone |
Date:
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Nov 22, 2005 12:51am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: possible solution |
if you take away the deadheads, the discussions in the forum would no longer be interesting
...to you, in which case, you could go to this theoretical Dead-related forum and continue the interesting discussions there.
This is all a matter of opinion, of course - as someone who has never participated in the Dead-related threads on here, I respectfully disagree.
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Poster:
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Phynie |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 3:04am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
I am with bopper on this one. It would be kinda cool to have a forum that is designated to the dead shows. It would keep the dead heads mostly in one place. And it would allow us to talk to our hearts content about these wonderful shows and not get in anyones hair.
that said, I am very thankful for how accepting this community is of the dead fans. I have heard alot about there being some upset people on the forum, but I have not seen any posts that lead me to this conclusion. Everyone seems very cool.
I am a member of many forums and have not really encountered people getting upset about members posting too much about a certain topic or band. I do not understand how that would effect them in the slightest.
Can someone clarify what the actualy complaints are? I mean, if it is foul language or picking a fight, that's not acceptable on ANY forum. But as far as posting TONS of topics about one band, does this effect the flow of things on the forum?
Please understand that I am trying to get a clearer picture of what the copmplaint is, not trying to pick a fight.
I love this place. The community has been wonderful and the music contained on this site is a treasure. I just want to see that I do not upset anyone by posting about my favorite band. Thanks!
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Poster:
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Diana Hamilton |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 3:32am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
Deadheads, please consider exploring the vast terrain at dead.net and making a home for yourself there for all kinds of Grateful Dead related conversation. There's probably scope for having an archive.org-related conversation area there. For instance there's one topic section called "All Things Highspeed" and maybe it can have subtopics.
As for discomfiture with Dead-dominated conversation here, many examples may be too polite for you to really notice here. The worst ones have been moderated, so you may miss them. Here is one example of a polite one:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=46050
The dominance of one or two particular topics on any messageboard does affect the conversational flow of the board. Heavy posting about 1 thing attracts more of the same and suppresses other postings. If you are a longterm member of various forums, you will notice this in each place. It is true here too. It is one reason why moderating ISOs here felt like a good idea.
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-16 11:32:40
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Poster:
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Phynie |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 3:25am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
That's cool. people are entitiled to speak their mind. that is actually a reason why forums are so cool.
but I do not see how people posting a bunch of topics about the dead would really effect things. I mean, can't you still post about any band or show containd on the archive? Just becasue there are 80 posts about GD, there is still room for 80 more about other artists.
It's a forum. I would think it would be cool to talk about anything that is contained on the archive as long as you are not trying to be a jerk (using bad language, picking fights, etc.)
The reason I like posting here as opposed to dead.net is becasue I like the community here and their insight. But I do not want to upset the existing, non-dead fan, community by posting my opinions about the dead.
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Poster:
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Diana Hamilton |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 3:54am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
I have seen this misgiving here, paraphrased: "Why should I post about x here, it all seems to be just about the Dead?" That is sad. Will we lose the participant who worries that?
The health of this forum is not just about refraining from being a jerk. It's also about
balance and looking at the big picture, beyond your single band and toward the community gathered around the
whole collection here.
As for a Deadhead-centered community, I can attest that there is an insightful one over at dead.net and insightful Heads from here can fit in comfortably there. In fact there are some shared participants already.
For here though, "Please don't dominate the rap, Jack..."
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-16 11:54:51
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Poster:
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MoistGreenOrganic |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 4:02am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
Thanks for that little quote, it made me smile.
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Poster:
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patkelley |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 8:15am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
I think I agree with the idea about the threads where people are looking for shows that aren't on here, etc. But when it comes to people posting other miscellaneous items about the Dead or Dead shows, I have to ask- What do you expect? They have more songs on here than all others combined, plus they're arguably the most famous live performers in music history. This is the best spot on the internet for gettig their music and people are on here constantly downloading. To me, it stands to reason that you're going to get a lot of people trying to communicate thoughts or concerns about shows or performances. What is the problem with it? Is there a limit to the number of posts that the archive can handle or display? My feeling is that the criticisms of Dead-related postings come from people who are for one reason or another envious of the Dead and/or their fans and the fact that they're the big players on here. But maybe inequity is something that upsets these people in general. But should we really expect a lot of discussion about some band whose friend uploaded two or three of their shows that he recorded with a walkman? Or should the posts be limited to technical recording and downloading threads? Wouldn't tha be a domination of a topic itself? There should probably be a more laissez-faire approach to what people want to talk about here.
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Poster:
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Diana Hamilton |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 12:06am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
To me, having personal interaction about the music that's here is
not a bad thing and is not the issue (
please read the parent post). It's when you get to the level of starting topics about, "How do you feel about this ebay item related to band x?", or "At which show did you buy the best grilled cheese in the lot?"* that you should "take a step back" and think about going to a forum that's better focused toward the individual band.
*Example only- replies to that here will be moderated off this general discussion thread.
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-17 08:06:44
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Poster:
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patkelley |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 10:38am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
I agree with you. But the thread sto which you object have to do with musical performances, rather than grilled cheese. With like 3000 Dead shows on here, can you seriously be upset that Deadheads (many of whom may either stumble upon this site through a search engine or may not otherwise be aware of your other suggested forums) talk about Grateful Dead things on here? Although I think you're right about some of your points, I think that any time there's unilateral, arbitrary censoring of people's thoughts, there might be cause for concern.
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Poster:
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direwolf0701 |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 10:42pm |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
i agree with both pat and diana. it is just a reality that the dead comprise almost 10% of all the shows on the LMA and are going to generate alot of discussion. it should however be kept to LMA related items though. i would love to see fans of other bands start posting some threads. i have tossed in threads regarding bands like Garaj Mahal, Kimock, Bela Fleck, Lotus, Acoustic Syndicate, etc, but have rarely received much of a response. fans who want to promote music of other bands need to step up a bit and contribute. although i am a huge deadhead, most of my downloads are from the aforementioned bands. But since i am just getting into them (with the exception of Kimock), it would be nice to get more than one response from a query post. i am just so thankful that this site has opened my ears to so much great "new" music. i'm just not sure i buy into the theory that other fans are too put off to bother responding due to the number of GD posts.
i see so many many posts from the moving images people, open source audio etc - they certianly dont appear "put off." just my 1 1/2 cents.
This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2005-11-17 06:42:34
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Poster:
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3roin stones |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 12:37am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
I certainly can see Diana's point-some of the Dead related threads are too specific to non-archive questions and should be addressed elsewhere.
But, we're talking about a band with a thirty year history and 3,000 downloads on this site-not to mention the continuing performances by the members. What other band can come close to these numbers?
I,ve said it before that we Heads tend to be very passionate,if not downright obsessive about the Dead and sometimes we get carried away in our discussions and need to be reigned in.However we do need to be a little bit more responsible with our threads. I mean "best Dead air?"
All in all, we do need to restrict our queries to the shows here on the archive. We all love this site and would be devestated if we could'nt rely on it for our musical needs. I know I'm guilty of going off topic as are most of the other Deadheads who post on this forum and will,in the future try to restrict myself to the shows themselves.
But, I cannot see the problem of the best of performances throughout the Archive for any band. I certainly download other bands and rely on reviews posted by non-Dead fans, and will continue to do so. This site is a marvel and I love it and am very grateful for all the hard work you curators do to keep it up and running.
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Poster:
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LMT |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 1:21am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
I need some clarification here. If I am asking about others' opinions of the shows with the best version of song 'x' so that I can dowload it, that topic is somehow not appropriate for the LMA forum?
I can understand the policy of no ISO's that aren't on the LMA (either because it's too soon or b/c it's a commercial release). And obviously, I understand the policy of not posting topics that don't relate at all to the LMA downloads.
So, is it OK or not to start a thread asking "What's the best show with song 'x' to download?" As someone who just stumbled onto this site within the past 2 months, I really would like to know so I don't abuse/misuse the forum. Please clarify!
This post was modified by LMT on 2005-11-17 09:21:19
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Poster:
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Diana Hamilton |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 1:50am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
The general idea of "what's the best version of song x here" is fine as far as I'm concerned. It's about exploring the music here together. But even within that context, here are some things to think about given the tips in the
parent post:
-Is the subject line tagged with the band name as well as the song name, to aid fans and nonfans? Or are you mistakenly posting as if this forum is just for your particular favorite band?
-Has this song or topic come up a bunch before, such that you can spare everyone a rehash? Like it says on each posting box here, "Please search the FAQs and forums using the box at the top of this page before posting questions in the event that your question has already been asked and answered in the past."
-Are there already a dozen other fresh topics about your band (relevant or not) churning on the board? Would it be possible to hold off and give some breathing room for other stuff- maybe ask later? That's a personal choice you can make, a common sense idea I'm asking anyone to consider. Common sense and perspective are good.
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-17 09:50:28
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Poster:
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3roin stones |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 1:49am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
"Common sense and perspective are good."
Could'nt have put it better than that. Thanks Diana!
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Poster:
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dire--wolf |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 4:42am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
Don't want to pile on but what is the fuss? To much Dead talk? It's all good. If I see 80 posts of another band, that's cool too. We might learn something new. I agree posts should be in regards to content and advise about songs and or recordings on the LMA.
No Time To Hate. Are You Kind?
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Poster:
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direwolf0701 |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 4:49am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
i guess that nixes my thought of starting a "Best: Take a Step Back" string ;P
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Poster:
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3roin stones |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 6:28am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
On the contrary, a Step Back thread sounds fascinating. Maybe we could expand to Best Jerry Step Back, Best Phil Step Back, Best Bobby etc.
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Poster:
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direwolf0701 |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 6:39am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
lol!!!! i knew i'd find interest in that string :)
peace and jam on people :)
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Poster:
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dire--wolf |
Date:
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Nov 20, 2005 4:43am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting Take a Step Back |
7-10-89 and 7-12-90
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Poster:
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LMT |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 4:18am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
Thanks for clarifying, Diana. The points you make make sense to me.
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Poster:
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Ole Uncle John |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 8:08am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
"the point is .. the forum is first and foremost for technical issues... new users..."
dgrayshn, is this stated somewhere or just your opinion?? Seems like FAQ should be the first stop for these needs.
That the GD posts should be related to Archive collection is certainly a reasonable guideline, and folks using the Forum Search PRIOR to launching a 'best version' and 'best of year' thread would be nice.
Otherwise I don't get the too much GD gripes. The space to start new threads is UNLIMITED and its assumed that everyone can work there scroll or page down function to whip by all the posts that don't interest them.
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-17 16:08:16
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Poster:
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direwolf0701 |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 8:04am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
nicely put man! :)
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Poster:
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midnight sun |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 4:58pm |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
This is yet another depressing post. Like a nasty disagreement in a hopeless relationship it dosn't look like resolution is possible. Even worse it appears the issue seems to be centered around some kind of bizarre irrational fear.
This time it just feels like the wind has gone from the sails.
Like any censorship you're gonna loose more good than bad. That's the price for excercising power.
After spending long cold gloomy days working in the feild with insensitive people and then coming home only to work half way through the long night on dry and lifeless technical reports and other business related "BS"...
What I'm trying to say is it's a real treat to finaly slow down, kick back, let the world go by, drop in on this site and read the postings here by the regulars. I'm as big a sucker as any for jumping into the discussions...these are beautiful people with beautiful ideas that for the most part make a geniune effort to get along and respect each others opinions.
If the archive would rather Deadheads took their insights somewhere else then so be it. I've never been one to hang where I'm not wanted.
If that's how it's gonna be I just hope I get to converse with ALL of these wonderful people again.
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Poster:
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Simard |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 8:43pm |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
hang in there bro - it's friday ... assuming there is such a day in the land of the midnight sun.
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Poster:
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3roin stones |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 1:33am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
That's exactly the kind of thread that should be allowed as it pertains to a specific LMA reference and can be addressed by those whose knowledge of LMA Grateful Dead offerings are more extensive than mine.
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Poster:
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grendelschoice |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 11:21pm |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
OK, D-wolf has described exactly how I feel about this controversy, which I don't feel needs to be a controversy at all.
If people don't like seeing Dead-related discussions, simply start a different one!
I too am a huge DeadHead (and make no apologies for that) but contrary to popular belief I have a great interest and listen to a large variety of other music as well. This site has turned me on to many bands, of which I would be more than happy to talk about, including RAY'S MUSIC EXCHANGE and HOME AT LAST, to name just 2....not to mention the countless other bands I've always loved and love talking about (RADIATORS, CHARLIE HUNTER, DEREK TRUCKS, MARTIN SEXTON) that are also abundant on the archive.
But there's no way I can resist a compelling thread about the Dead. I just don't see what's so bad about that, If I don';t like a particular song on the radio or show on TV, I turn the channel. It doesn't mean I stop listening to the radio or watching TV altogether. It never ceases to amaze me the vitriol that some people have towards the Dead. I don't know if they just resent the passion that DHeads have for their favorite band or if Jerry Garcia bit them when they were kids, but the anger expressed by Dead Haters really is confusing to me.
Our discussions of the best "Row Jimmy" or "Uncle John's Band" in no way threatens to wipe out the myriad of other music available for Download AND discussion on this site!
I made the mistake of responding to one particularly nasty posting not long ago that asked why there could't be some "serious" discussion of music on this site rather than the ramblings of Dead heads...but the person made no such suggestion of that "serious" discussion himself! Instead of insulting Dead Heads, just start a discussion of another band and I guarantee you'll be surprised at how easy it is to get others--including Dead Heads-- to gleefully join in.
Long live the archive!
GC
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Poster:
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dgrayshn |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 11:43pm |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
the point is .. the forum is first and foremost for technical issues... new users...
someone posting a thread asking about what the best GD song from the summer of 71 or whatever should be posted on a GD fansite...
seems like a pretty straight forward concept to me...
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Poster:
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grendelschoice |
Date:
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Nov 16, 2005 11:50pm |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
If the forum is supposed to be solely for tech issues and newbie queries, fine. I'll stop posting completely. I've yet to see that as the written policy or get any warnings about it.
and it STILL doesn't address the point i'm making: Why can't tech issues, newbie questions or anything else for that matter co-exist w/postings about the Dead? Where in the world is the harm? If you see a posting about a Dead question and aren't interested, don't read it. Move on and post your own question.
Plus, the majority of Dead postings I have seen are in fact related directly to the archive b/c when someone asks a question about the best version of this or that song, they are more often than not directed to the very show that exists here in the archive. I have found dozens of great song versions based on threads from this forum. That's not pointless talk about best this or worst that...it's information that leads directly to what this site offers: great live music.
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Poster:
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direwolf0701 |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 12:33am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
very well put gc! i too have not read that the forum is simply for tech questions/newbies/etc. that seems to me to be counterproductive to what the LMA stands for (at least in my opinion). the etree forum should be about the music - but i do agree that it should be in reference to bands/shows that are on the archive. Diana's "best cheese sandwich in the parking lot" comment is very valid. those are ridiculous inquiries which should be on another site's forum. but to bounce back and forth between between the archive and another fan site just to find out a good clean version of a GD song seems somewhat foolish since this is the site which holds the music.
and what if I want a good clean soulful version of Kimock's "tongue n groove"?? do i have to search out a fansite forum for kimock just to ask a simmple question that can be answered (hopefully) here?
- by the way - the "tongue n groove" from 07/01/05 is about as gorgeous as it gets.
also - i may be "dead" wrong, but it seems to me that the only people who have been pointing me in other band's directions are the same people who are posting GD strings. (case in point - the current bluegrass with drums etree forum string). Like Simard said - OtherHeads need to promote their bands here. There is nothing more refreshing musically than discovering a new, beautiful sound.
This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2005-11-17 08:18:18
This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2005-11-17 08:33:24
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Poster:
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Simard |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 12:05am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
I tend to agree w the DeadHeads here ... a sort survival of the fittest scenario is happening here ... non DeadHeads should see this as a challenge: Represent Yourselves and Your Bands. We'll listen to you and your bands, we're not as closed minded as we sometimes come across. This may sound cocky, but without the Dead it's likely than most other bands may not have adopted similar taping and trading policies. This LMA might not even exit (can't wait for the back-lash on that one!). Recall the story that Jerry told us about how he taped a Bill Monroe concert - hell, he was the first taper!
OtherHeads : represent Yourselves!
BTW, this here LMA was in Time Magazine this week... we should probably feel the effects this weekend.
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Poster:
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Brad Leblanc |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 1:27am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: LMA in Time Magazine? |
BTW, this here LMA was in Time Magazine this week... we should probably feel the effects this weekend.
Really? Just a blurb or what?
This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-11-17 09:27:14
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Poster:
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Simard |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 1:40am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
Brad - Barely a blurb... it's their Great Inventions issue... talks about the new accessibility of music on line; mentions ETree/Archive specifically - also mentions the Grateful Dead specifically. I'll look at it again tonight. Have a good Thursday. - Brian
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Poster:
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Tyler |
Date:
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Nov 17, 2005 2:17am |
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Forum:
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etree
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Subject:
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Re: About forum posting |
read it
at the bottom of this page:
ARCHIVE.ORG/AUDIO/ETREE.PHP The Live Music Archive is where hard-core fans go to find high-quality live recordings. It is a "noncommercial" (meaning free and legal) service, but many big acts turn up on the site, including Jack Johnson, Jason Mraz and the Grateful Dead.
This post was modified by Tyler on 2005-11-17 10:17:08
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dgrayshn |
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Nov 16, 2005 9:26am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
I call BS...
I happen to be a big DMB fan...
when they were on here and DMB fans took over the board I didn't like that either...
jealousy or whatever you want to call it has nothing to do with it...
the archive is an archive site first.. its not a fan site for the DEAD...
nuff said
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patkelley |
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Nov 16, 2005 10:49am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
Not BS
My point is that the overwhelming amount of Dead music on here justifies a great deal of deference to Dead-related posts.
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JodyC |
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Nov 16, 2005 6:56am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
Perfect quote Diana. Might have to be the mission statement for the cause. You are in an uneviable position, yet I'm sure most regular posters can see your dilemma. The Dead have 100 times more shows here than the average band, so having 100 times the posters may be rational, yet understandably annoying to others. I just popped over to Yonder Mountains website, a band who have proportionately way more shows on here than others. Its very basic, a couple stream and mp3 songs available. I wonder how many people on their site know LMA has over 400 YMSB shows. Maybe "we" can make a collective effort to invite them and other fan bases over here for some "coffee talk"- (in my best Mike Myers female Brooklyn accent). Maybe new blood will expand everyones musical horizons. I assume most GD fans are always open to new stuff, but given the choice resort to the comfort of the archive and their favorite band. When you see the classic thread starting (best show when Jerry wasn't wearing a black t-shirt, or whatever)just lay out your Please don't dominate the rap, Jack... as a pleasant reminder, or ask the poster to list his/her email addy for responses.
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Earl B. Powell |
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Dec 18, 2005 10:28am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
With all due regard to the management and oversight crew, the accrued commentary regarding the Grateful Dead is significant and central to your role as a repository. Like it or not, because the action was taken on this website, this website will get to reap the whirlwind. As a repostiory, the issue of intellectual property, copyrights, associated law and policy should be part of the everyday business. So, remove the band name from the posts and substitute any you would like...the issues surrounding possession and free distribution still remain. It's a complex topic worthy of much debate, no matter what source material is being examined.
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The Bopper |
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Nov 16, 2005 1:38am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting (GD) |
Diana,
I understand that people will get frustrated with the overflow of Grateful Dead posting that goes on in this forum. If I wasn't a huge GD fan I would very annoyed by all the fanatics. But since the LAMA has become a centralized area for all Dead shows, it's only natural that people will want to use these forums to discuss Dead related material. It's just so nice and easy to hop onto the LAMA, start streaming a show and then pop into the forums to discuss our favorite band. And I like the core group of folks who post about the dead here.
A solution to curb the domination of GD posts, and I'd bet this has crossed some curators minds, would be to make a Grateful Dead forum. The perfect place to display GD forum postings would be right below the listing of all the different years shows occured if a user was to click on a "Grateful Dead" link. I'm talking about below the year listings on this page:
http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php?cat=Grateful%20Dead&PHPSESSID=24ef748c4798420eaab58be05f81188c
Maybe there are reasons not to do this as well, and I haven't thought it all the way through. But I have been to libraries over the years that will take all the books of a popular author and feature that author by placing the books on in one section.
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doodle |
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Nov 16, 2005 2:03am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting (GD) |
Perhaps something else the curators could do to curb GD postings (if indeed that needs to be done) would be to rotate and expand the "Curator's Pick" section of the home page. I, probably like most other visitors here, don't have endless time to peruse all the bands that are available on the archive (and that's one of the beautiful things about the archive!), and I used to depend heavily on the "recently reviewed" area for suggestions. This area has been trimmed from 5 shows to 2 in recent months thus limiting, to some degree, easy access to suggested shows. And the "curtor's pick" seems to rotate heavily between the Radiators and John Brown's Body at any given moment. Perhaps if more shows were placed on display, in either of those two forms, it would stimulate conversations about these other bands waiting to be discovered. Maybe?
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Brad Leblanc |
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Nov 16, 2005 2:18am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting (GD) |
I used to depend heavily on the "recently reviewed" area for suggestions. This area has been trimmed from 5 shows to 2 in recent months
I've always seen 5 reviews there. Maybe your browser settings compact it to 2? It's 5 for me right now.
Regarding adding new forums, we will probably do this down the road. Tech Support + Open Forum + Possibly others.
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Diana Hamilton |
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Nov 16, 2005 3:10am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting (GD) |
No matter what future forum expansions, I would argue strongly against any band-specific ones here (the prior suggestion I probably argued against: Dave Matthews Band-specific forum). That'll be a debate for another time...
For now everyone, please be considerate of the big picture here. Thanks!
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StrawRider |
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Nov 20, 2005 10:09am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
OK, before I start ranting and raving I want to thank all involved for the pleasure and
honor of being able to download so many great shows. It's really been a dream come true for me and it is still continuing. Now, onto the issue: Too many GD-related threads and what to do to alleviate the 'problem' so that everyone is happy. To me, the solution seems simple. So my solution must be rubbish or it would have been implemented by now. It seems to me that a clear and large link above the message threads that reads "Grateful Dead Discussions Here" which leads participants to a
separate page would be the answer.
I've posted elsewhere (at
DeadNet and the
GD Forum) but this is the place where the goodies come from. Plus, as midnight sun has pointed out, it's been rewarding and educational and fun to read the posts and reviews of the regulars here. I would hate to move onto some other forum and lose some folks on the way.
If the solution I just presented cannot be handled by the Archive then perhaps if we fellow deadheads agree to set-up shop somewhere, would the Archive consider a link from here to it? It certainly would help keep the connections we've all made stay together. There has to be some way in which the Dead Community can resolve this issue since there are so many devoted, gifted and intelligent people that make it all happen.
So how about it? Can one band get its own discussion page or does that just lead to everyone wanting their own 'page two'? I don't think so. I think if the Dead fans had a special link page, the rest of the fans of other bands would be more than happy with the front page of the discussions to have as their own.
This post was modified by StrawRider on 2005-11-20 18:09:35
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grendelschoice |
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Nov 20, 2005 9:33pm |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
StrawRider,
I think that's a great idea and I would support it, even though I maintain that there is nothing at all wrong with people who don't want or are sick of Dead postings to simply ignore them and generate new posts on different topics or respond to other posts on topics that do interest them.
When I see posts dealing with intricate technical issues I have no interest in, I don't get annoyed or upset that people are having "insider" discussions I don't feel compelled to penetrate, I just shrug and move on.
I really can't believe this has become such a controversy, but if it wouldn't be too much work for the folks who run this excellent site to provide a link to a separate Dead forum where us "crazy people" can be safely caged with our discussions of the best version of "Mississippi Half Step", (11-6-77, Broome County, BTW ;-)...then fine, i'm all for it, and promise not to bother those who are fed up with us ever again.
GC
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StrawRider |
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Nov 21, 2005 4:11am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
Great, thanks to you both for responding. I was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to bother. Now, hopefully, Diana or some other Archive moderator will also see this and respond. I think this could be a good compromise on our part and if the folks at the Archive can help us out with either a separate web page for our discussions or simply a link to another GD message board site then we'll be on our way to making things easier for everybody.
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direwolf0701 |
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Nov 21, 2005 4:37am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
personally, i simply agree with Diana's supposition that moderation is the key. I think we deadheads have just about run the gamut on "best of's" anyways. Moderation and running a search before posting seems to be the best way with regard to the music held on the Archive.
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greenone |
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Nov 21, 2005 5:59am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
personally, i simply agree with Diana's supposition that moderation is the key.
I think it's more than a supposition...keep in mind that archive.org as a whole is a MUCH larger project than just the live music area, and to ask for the construction of a separate message board for one band's discussions may be a bit far down on the list of projects for the architects to take on.
The problem with recommendation threads is that they get very long very quickly, especially for bands that have 3000 shows on the site, and they eventually push several threads at a time off the bottom of the page.
The fact that a moderator is suggesting moderation seems to be a subtle hint that it's not just a whim that's come to her out of the blue, but more of a systemic recommendation to diversify the confab on the one board dedicated to this huge collection.
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StrawRider |
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Nov 21, 2005 6:44am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
Thanks for your thoughts:
to ask for the construction of a separate message board for one band's discussions may be a bit far down on the list of projects for the architects to take on.
That's why I came up with an alternative solution to that first idea. The alternative is a link away from the Archive.
Building a link to another website where GD-related posts are not only welcomed but encouraged is a far easier task for the Archive architects. In this way the glut of GD-related posts would no longer need to be moderated. Nor would the deadheads need to post in moderation, judging whether or not to post. The indulgent GD posts could be elsewhere while the technical posts about a GD show would still be here.
I'm just trying to work it out so all of us can get along here while also trying to make so the Archive deadheads can stick together...
This post was modified by StrawRider on 2005-11-21 14:44:20
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greenone |
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Nov 21, 2005 6:54am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
I missed the link suggestion...my bad. Definitely agree that it would be a better solution than an entire sub-forum!
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tigerbolt |
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Nov 21, 2005 8:46am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
As a fan of the dead i've always used my trusty deadbase books.All Deadbase books contain the best of this the longest that.The best brent,jerry etc..... All my downloads from the archive have been suggestion's from deadbase 8-27-72,fall 73 shows.fillmore 69 etc....plus you don't have to wait for any reply from another poster.I have not come across any post's here that i didn't see in deadbase.The grateful dead flew under the radar so shall we.Just a thought.p.s. It'll keep diana happy and less stressful dealing with post you can read in a book because we all love diana.
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StrawRider |
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Nov 21, 2005 12:01pm |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
I hear ya, tigerbolt.
Although flying below the radar can keep you from getting above the clouds. ;^)
DeadNet
GD Forum
DeadBase
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StrawRider |
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Nov 21, 2005 4:51am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
I agree that the "best of" posts have becoming somewhat annoying and yes, those people should use the search function first if they don't have the time to delve into the Archive like they should....but...
I think the Archive message board could be better served if we deadheads posted elsewhere about any GD topics that come up. That's my opinion.
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Fishead |
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Jul 28, 2005 1:04am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
geez.. so sorry for making a request ..it wont happen again !
peace and jam on !!!
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dgrayshn |
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Nov 16, 2005 1:57am |
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etree
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Re: About forum posting |
i've been bitting my lip for quite a while ...
so im not surprised to see this happen...
hey Diane how about putting some of that in big bold letters on the front page ... otherwise this will just happen again and again and again..
:)
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